Wrakkenruan
Ars Praefectus
Hmm. This review would lean me to the R3. Still waffling… Lower cost R3 would help toward clutch and brake kit. Brake kit sounds like a decent upgrade, too
GESC Racing: The perpetual all things virtual cars thread. (includes GT6,Forza 5,etc)
- Thread starter simple_simon
- Start date
Not trying to dismiss the validity of your waffling, but that "review" reads like AI-generated mush.
Wrakkenruan
Ars Praefectus
Just ordered the base R5 package. Didn’t see great sales on accessories with Amazon and figured I can add them later as needed. Thanks for the inputs, y’all
Linear Prime
Ars Praetorian
How is AC Rally with a wheel? Been watching some videos and it looks fun! I loved Dirt2 but it was more arcade.
Maybe racing, maybe not... what is the best automotive game for learning to drive, period? My son is 10 and has never really driven anything. Doesn't need to be a "sim", but ideally he would be able to drive from cockpit/cowl view. I feel like simple license testing like Gran Turismo games would be great, but I can't think of a PC game that has anything similar.
I set him up with Beam.NG the other day and it didn't go well. Some scenarios were ok, some were not, and honestly that game is a nightmare from a UI standpoint. I can never remember what keys are bound to what and it requires extensive keyboard interaction no matter what you are trying to do.
I set him up with Beam.NG the other day and it didn't go well. Some scenarios were ok, some were not, and honestly that game is a nightmare from a UI standpoint. I can never remember what keys are bound to what and it requires extensive keyboard interaction no matter what you are trying to do.
Forza Motorsport is available on PC. You only drive on race tracks, but there are a lot of regular production cars available. Not quite as many "ordinary" cars as previous versions of FM, fewer regular sedans & hatchbacks than before, but the sports cars are still in there. It doesn't have anything like the license system of GT though.
It's in maintenance mode now as the studio has been cut back by Microsoft, but it should still be accessible for a long time as long as you buy it (or download it on gamepass) before it gets delisted - probably in another couple years. Though it seems if you paid for a game that's delisted, you can usually still redownload it after that happens.
It's in maintenance mode now as the studio has been cut back by Microsoft, but it should still be accessible for a long time as long as you buy it (or download it on gamepass) before it gets delisted - probably in another couple years. Though it seems if you paid for a game that's delisted, you can usually still redownload it after that happens.
GTA? Or Saints Row
Semi-serious, Gran Turismo might work with an emulator, but I don't know if the wheel would be supported.
Forza Horizon has a few towns/urban areas, but traffic isn't realistic and turning circles are on the arcade side vs sim. Automobilista felt pretty realistic, but it's all tracks like Forza Motorsport, Assetto Corsa or iracing etc
Assuming you are looking for a game to do double duty, and not a purpose made instructional software...
I'd say Forza Horizon 5 (or 4 if you drive on the wrong side) is OK for that in the open world. Offline of course.
It's not perfect, but with a wheel setup (all assists off) on a C/D class car it's close enough to get some basics down.
It even does a decent job with varying surfaces and weather
I'd say Forza Horizon 5 (or 4 if you drive on the wrong side) is OK for that in the open world. Offline of course.
It's not perfect, but with a wheel setup (all assists off) on a C/D class car it's close enough to get some basics down.
It even does a decent job with varying surfaces and weather
Wrakkenruan
Ars Praefectus
Live for Speed has a free demo level that includes what appears to be a European version of a VW GTI. It's pretty fun for basic driving around. Lots of various racing modes and you can progress to an open wheel BMW vehicle for free.
Yeah, LFS is the closest I think I've found to legit license tests. Sadly I lost my license key for LFS a loooooooong time ago. I'll download the demo and look at it again, surprisingly it just got a big update.
Ideally, yes, a game that is as close to "instructional" as possible. I have plenty of racing games to boot up, but none that really ease someone into the world of driving.
If I can't find anything instructional, I may try making a preset in Content Manager/AC with all of the nannies turned up to maximum and see what happens.
Ideally, yes, a game that is as close to "instructional" as possible. I have plenty of racing games to boot up, but none that really ease someone into the world of driving.
If I can't find anything instructional, I may try making a preset in Content Manager/AC with all of the nannies turned up to maximum and see what happens.
So, out of curiosity, would you be able to comment further on why Beam.NG didn't really work? Is it "just" the keybindings requiring your son to hit the keyboard frequently? Too focused on crashes rather than driving?
I've also got a 10 y.o. that seems interested by Beam.NG, although he doesn't seem to be all that attracted to racing. His elder brother only slightly more. Both seem, unsurprisingly, more interested in apocalypse and chaos.
There are 2 ways to ease in:
1. Start with a sim with license tests and start with a good mindset right away, but it could also completely put a child off.
2. Start with a semi-sim which is "fun" and gradually introduce lightly dumbed down concepts, while also generating interest. Then gradually work up to more serious sims later.
Also I should point out that off-road shouldn't be dismissed. Maybe stuff like the more gentle rally sims or offroad sims could be appealing.
If you find (1) not working, I recommend starting (2) with games like Forza Horizon or The Crew. They require you to use the brakes normally, no artificial drifting round every corner. And they are nice vibrant environments to work in. I wish something like that existed when I was that age
1. Start with a sim with license tests and start with a good mindset right away, but it could also completely put a child off.
2. Start with a semi-sim which is "fun" and gradually introduce lightly dumbed down concepts, while also generating interest. Then gradually work up to more serious sims later.
Also I should point out that off-road shouldn't be dismissed. Maybe stuff like the more gentle rally sims or offroad sims could be appealing.
If you find (1) not working, I recommend starting (2) with games like Forza Horizon or The Crew. They require you to use the brakes normally, no artificial drifting round every corner. And they are nice vibrant environments to work in. I wish something like that existed when I was that age
I feel like y2k_se's suggestion of American Truck Simulator is underrated. It's a great feel for driving on the road. Not necessarily on the simulation side, but basic negotiating tight city streets, freeway entrances and exits, etc. It wants you to follow normal traffic laws and flow. You have to check your mirrors and stuff, too. Things about driving most driving and racing games completely ignore. Short of a program dedicated to teaching driving, this is probably the best bet.
While things like Forza Horizon are amazing to play, I'm not sure there is anything that translates to anything there? Even the extremely limited normal road traffic doesn't really do anything except sort of wander aimlessly, not really following any flow or traffic laws. They're more a rolling obstacle than actual traffic. The AI racers (drivatars) are pretty decent, but they're racing, not following traffic flow. The tongue-in-cheek suggestion of GTA V is better at simulating a city than Forza Horizon. GTA traffic is a bit sarcastically too lifelike in how and where they do and don't choose to follow traffic laws. lol
Now, this might be my old-school GenX showing... But why not actually take him to drive stuff, too? I'm not saying just turn him loose on whatever improvised tractor lawnmowers, 3-wheelers, and go-karts of dubious structural value that happen to be around... But maybe start out with some simple bumper cars at an amusement park? Move up to basic slow go-karts at a sports/amusement park. Then after another year or two, maybe some electric F1-style carts at a dedicated karting facility (K1, F1, Adrenaline, etc., whatever is around), if he shows some interest in actually driving? You can be with him and make a fun activity of it together. That's all pretty safe and controlled. Driving in games is great at being fun, and can actually teach a lot of things, too... But I just don't know if you can even really understand what a simulator is simulating if you haven't driven anything. I love sim racing, but there is something special about actually driving, too. And 10 is certainly not too young for basic go-karts.
That's a good idea. Driving just the cab without a trailer attached will be a realistic, if low speed, introduction.
Mudrunner also has a "driving around town" section before getting off-road (and maybe Snow runner and SpinTire but I can't remember them as well.)
I have had a bit of fun with it so far. I've really only driven two of the cars and the gravel stages and it has been a blast. Several of the guys I follow in YT who do a bit of real and sim racing really like it so far even though it is in EA. I started off using a GT/F1 style rim, but ended up buying a circular one just for this sim. The developers had a Q/A yesterday and even though I didn't watch much of it they were talking about monthly updates til it gets released. They dropped a teaser for snow rally stages yesterday which I feel is going to be included in this month's update (next week?). May want to wait til next week to see if the price drops for the Steam sale though.
Dunno there is something about rally where you are constantly driving on the edge...of the limits of the car and on the edge of a cliff! Half scared shitless you are going to go over the edge, but then realizing you got it and that you can try again and know you can go faster.
I mean it did work, kinda. I just had to sit behind him and assist with all the menus and other bullshit. There were many, many crashes. Most were intentional - this is the nature of a sandbox game. The only scenario that "clicked" was the one where you try and knock over all the barrels in the time limit.
To be clear, I totally support all of these options. I'm currently in an apartment - not an area with lawnmowers and other questionable vehicles with free space to roam. I'm not against karts. We've done them before, but they are not exactly convenient. When he was younger I was more active in rallycross/autocross/enduro racing and always expressed interest in the "racecar" (a pile of shit Sentra SE-R SpecV lol). I told him when he's 15 if he is still interested, I'll buy another racecar and we'll go race together on weekends (Autox or Rallyx to feel it out).
Anyway, recently he just expressed interest in using the sim rig and "learning to drive", hence the original ask. I don't believe any of the answers in this thread are wrong, I was just looking specifically for something instructional. I have plenty of racing games and other shenanigans to access already
Both games have a driving academy.
https://blog.scssoft.com/2024/10/driving-academy-release.html
There is a youtube video describing the functionality in that page.
See if you can find a used PS4 on marketplace (assuming your wheel etc are PS-compatible). PS4 can run GT7. I've always had a really good experience with GT early game stuff, starting with the B license, racing slow cars, and progressing from there. I think it does it really well.Anyway, recently he just expressed interest in using the sim rig and "learning to drive", hence the original ask. I don't believe any of the answers in this thread are wrong, I was just looking specifically for something instructional. I have plenty of racing games and other shenanigans to access already
Yeah, I'm not getting a console. 1) because I hate them but 2) because I dont believe it will work with my wheel components, thus defeating the purpose of a sim rig.
The idea of emulating an older GT game is interesting, I just dont know how well that works and if it would support a wheel. Agreed, it does the licensing/training progression very well.
The idea of emulating an older GT game is interesting, I just dont know how well that works and if it would support a wheel. Agreed, it does the licensing/training progression very well.
Not sure which wheel you have but RPCS3 supports some wheels - the g27/29 and t300 are mentioned in their wiki and GT 5 and 6 are in the "known working" game list.
https://wiki.rpcs3.net/index.php?title=Help:Peripherals_and_accessories
https://wiki.rpcs3.net/index.php?title=Help:Peripherals_and_accessories
Wrakkenruan
Ars Praefectus
So... I'm liking the Moza R5, but don't especially like the feeling of fighting the stronger wheel (don't laugh enough to hurt yourself - I am quite aware that people like stronger bases, but that's not me). I want to figure FFB settings to let me feel what's going on with the sim car and help me control it better around the track, but I do not feel the need for realistic force levels. I do this for fun. I like power steering in my real car. Do I just turn down the FFB strength either in-game or in the Pit Stop software as a global thing? Or what? (65 years old, just wanting a fun, easy drive of fast cars)
I think in most sims people keep ffb on the wheel at 100 and adjust in game.
I just read something about iracing and one of the the developers said that their ffb in game is based on nm...in that they design the ffb for a 17nm wheel. That would suggest to leave your base at 100 (5nm), and then dial down the in game ffb so it wouldn't clip the signal ~5nm/17nm*100.
Another way to look at it is at 100 on your wheel, you have full dynamic range of your wheel. You then scale down the full dynamic range of the in game ffb to match your wheel.
If you do the opposite, you don't necessarily scale down the dynamic range of the wheel. say you go to 80% on the wheel....you now just turned your base into a 4nm base. At 100 in game you are losing all ffb information above 4nm at that setting...it isn't scaling down the ffb to fit within the 4nm.
I hope that is right
I just read something about iracing and one of the the developers said that their ffb in game is based on nm...in that they design the ffb for a 17nm wheel. That would suggest to leave your base at 100 (5nm), and then dial down the in game ffb so it wouldn't clip the signal ~5nm/17nm*100.
Another way to look at it is at 100 on your wheel, you have full dynamic range of your wheel. You then scale down the full dynamic range of the in game ffb to match your wheel.
If you do the opposite, you don't necessarily scale down the dynamic range of the wheel. say you go to 80% on the wheel....you now just turned your base into a 4nm base. At 100 in game you are losing all ffb information above 4nm at that setting...it isn't scaling down the ffb to fit within the 4nm.
I hope that is right
Another thought...one of the reasons why your wheel may feel so heavy is that the in game FFB is too high. In that 17nm example I mentioned earlier, anything above 5nm on the game signal is going to be clipped, and you cannot feel that information, it manifests itself by making the wheel harder to turn. So getting the proper in game setting will help lower the heaviness of the steering, and improve in the fidelity of the ffb because the signal isn't clipping anymore.
This depends on the sim. You can drop the global strength but as zAmboni notes you'll get reduced power across the board, and if the sim doesn't have detailed FFB controls this is the best way. Generally, though, you want to keep the wheel control at max power and decrease things like cornering force, grip, slip, bumps, etc in the game - that will give you the greatest range of feel while limiting how much effort you've got to put into it.
There's no right or wrong way to do that - see what feels better. In iRacing with a SimXperience wheel you'd use SimCommander to set the values for overall FFB, grip, corner, etc, or use one of the auto-tune settings. A more powerful base can give you a much more nuanced feel for things even if you've got the power max turned down - you're not wasting anything unless you intentionally clip it by turning the FFB down massively at the wheel and turn it way up in game.
TLDR - leave the wheel as high as you can, and turn down the effects in game to make it comfortable to use without clipping.
For many of the games/sims I believe that the manufacturer will have their recommended settings. I am sure if Moza doesn't have anything that there are plenty of ppl on reddit or the Moza discord (if they have one) that would have suggested settings
Wrakkenruan
Ars Praefectus
Thanks, z. That makes a lot of sense to me. I'll give that a try. Thanks for the backup, NE.
And every time I ask on the FB Moza group, all I get is how I should be buying a bigger base - not helping... I haven't hit the Moza Discord yet. Will see how this advice gets me going and work from there.
And every time I ask on the FB Moza group, all I get is how I should be buying a bigger base - not helping... I haven't hit the Moza Discord yet. Will see how this advice gets me going and work from there.
Wrakkenruan
Ars Praefectus
25% in-game with Pit Stop at 100% (so far; just tried a couple of games) seems to be pretty okay. Thanks again.
Fixing sliding pedals:
Back when I had a Logi 923 wheel & pedals, friends who tried it out complained about the pedals sliding forward. I never had any problems, I think because I tend to press down on the pedals, not pushing them forward. I'm only a casual racer, I don't have a dedicated sim frame and seat, just the default setup on the desk since I use the system for other games and such.
Anyway, I recently upgraded to a Moza combo and the design of the pedals seems to be a little different. As a result I'm pressing more forward than down and yup, now the sliding pedal issue is affecting me too.
The computer is in a room with a hard tile floor. I bought some of this Stylewell anti-slip underpad, cut out an 18" x 18" chunk and put the pedals on top. Yay, no more sliding!
I didn't want to follow the usual suggestion of sticking a piece of wood between the pedals and wall because (1) that's where my power bar etc is located, and (2) I didn't want to duck under the desk to insert / remove the piece of wood every time I fired up a driving game. When not putting pressure on the underpad, you can slip it and the pedals forward easily enough, then pull it back when it's time to have some fun.
Hope this might help some other folks out there!
Edit: Hmm, that's weird, it's only 25 bucks Canadian up here in the Frozen North (= $18 USD). Usually things are cheaper in the US. <shrug>
Back when I had a Logi 923 wheel & pedals, friends who tried it out complained about the pedals sliding forward. I never had any problems, I think because I tend to press down on the pedals, not pushing them forward. I'm only a casual racer, I don't have a dedicated sim frame and seat, just the default setup on the desk since I use the system for other games and such.
Anyway, I recently upgraded to a Moza combo and the design of the pedals seems to be a little different. As a result I'm pressing more forward than down and yup, now the sliding pedal issue is affecting me too.
The computer is in a room with a hard tile floor. I bought some of this Stylewell anti-slip underpad, cut out an 18" x 18" chunk and put the pedals on top. Yay, no more sliding!
I didn't want to follow the usual suggestion of sticking a piece of wood between the pedals and wall because (1) that's where my power bar etc is located, and (2) I didn't want to duck under the desk to insert / remove the piece of wood every time I fired up a driving game. When not putting pressure on the underpad, you can slip it and the pedals forward easily enough, then pull it back when it's time to have some fun.
Hope this might help some other folks out there!
Edit: Hmm, that's weird, it's only 25 bucks Canadian up here in the Frozen North (= $18 USD). Usually things are cheaper in the US. <shrug>
Last edited:
Another trick I've seen people without sim rigs do is mount the pedals to a piece of plywood with a lip (~2x4 or similar) at one end. Set the forward 2 wheels/legs of your office chair in front of the lip/on the plywood.
Ultimately the pedals sliding is only part of the equation, you want to make sure you don't slide the opposite direction either
Ultimately the pedals sliding is only part of the equation, you want to make sure you don't slide the opposite direction either
Wrakkenruan
Ars Praefectus
Had an initial problem with my Moza R5 and the front edge bevel on my desk. Basically the clamp point wasn't far enough back, and the mount would tip and come loose pretty easily. There wasn't much of a contact patch.
Worked out to put a wedge and slab in; now it moves the desk before the base and clamp move relative to the desk.
You may be able to see where I trimmed out my keyboard tray for the clamp bolts to fit.
I put my pedals on a slab of plywood to keep them from moving.
Then my chair was moving backwards, so I got a set of these - only two needed to keep me from sliding back.
And now I can see just how much I really suck at competitive driving. Oh well. It's still fun.
Worked out to put a wedge and slab in; now it moves the desk before the base and clamp move relative to the desk.
You may be able to see where I trimmed out my keyboard tray for the clamp bolts to fit.
I put my pedals on a slab of plywood to keep them from moving.
Then my chair was moving backwards, so I got a set of these - only two needed to keep me from sliding back.
And now I can see just how much I really suck at competitive driving. Oh well. It's still fun.
You can easily convert your pedal mount to what I was talking about if sliding becomes an issue. This is what I mean, but out of wood (not my setup, just an example).
Does that pedal set have a load cell brake? I put a lot of force into my brakes.
Does that pedal set have a load cell brake? I put a lot of force into my brakes.
Wrakkenruan
Ars Praefectus
No load cell on my pedals. I'm old, and the torsional spring on it is enough for me so far.
I used my Fanatec Clubsport pedals (with their load cell) just sitting on an anti-slip mat for a while. They remained in place quite well.
I have a set of inverted pedals and they were slip sliding around. Ended up putting a 1x2 between my desk legs to prevent limit movement. I didn't have to worry about chair moving since my "chair" is actually a futon . Yes I have a weird cockpit
Spending too much time last couple of days with AC Rally trying to come to terms with cars on tarmac. Took me a while to realize that the car I was driving was setup for gravel (even though I was in a "event" only on tarmac). Found a setup that was way better, but I am still kinda slow. Ended up shaving off 10s on my stage time, that still leaves me another 3s from the Gold Medal.....and in 2,300th place in the global rankings
. Yes I have a weird cockpitSpending too much time last couple of days with AC Rally trying to come to terms with cars on tarmac. Took me a while to realize that the car I was driving was setup for gravel (even though I was in a "event" only on tarmac). Found a setup that was way better, but I am still kinda slow. Ended up shaving off 10s on my stage time, that still leaves me another 3s from the Gold Medal.....and in 2,300th place in the global rankings
You're spending more time in the hobby than I... you'd really get some serious benefit from a 'pit. A Trak Racer TR40 is about $400.I have a set of inverted pedals and they were slip sliding around. Ended up putting a 1x2 between my desk legs to prevent limit movement. I didn't have to worry about chair moving since my "chair" is actually a futon
Spending too much time last couple of days with AC Rally trying to come to terms with cars on tarmac. Took me a while to realize that the car I was driving was setup for gravel (even though I was in a "event" only on tarmac). Found a setup that was way better, but I am still kinda slow. Ended up shaving off 10s on my stage time, that still leaves me another 3s from the Gold Medal.....and in 2,300th place in the global rankings
iRacing season 1 for 2026 just dropped, and they're ramping up the road courses. Miami and Adelaide will be nice additions - Miami especially since we've watched it the last few years in F1.